P3000 389 ошибка prius

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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GOTOXY » 11 дек 2014, 13:38

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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mixser » 11 дек 2014, 22:18

Машина уже не заводится, после зарядки малого акумулятора она завелась, но если перевести селектор передач в драйв она выключила бензомотор и с тех пор не заводится бензомотор, авто стоит без движения уже полгода, сервисная перемычка где ее искать можно подробности, кислородный датчик он где сверху под капотом который?

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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GOTOXY » 11 дек 2014, 23:23

Перемычка в батарее. Наверно её(батарею) нужно разбирать и мерить напряжение каждого элемента. Кислородный датчик под капотом. Судя по ошибкам проблема с АКПП.
Хотя мерить уже нечего P3000-389 Сигнал отказа с компьютера батареи (напряжение упало)
И с АКПП все понятно P3120-542 Отказ при открытии сцепления С2 (Трансмиссия в сборе)
Вобщем ВВБ заряжать АКПП менять.
Думаю так.

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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atak » 12 дек 2014, 00:35

mixser, а машинка то какая у вас? Судя по подписи Приус

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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mixser » 12 дек 2014, 06:03

У меня у самого приус, а это эстима 2002 8 местная базовая, хозяин попросил мол стоит уже год , предлагает забрать на восстановление. Вот сижу и думаю как цену ему посчитать, с Егором на счет элементов и коробки уже общался. Какие сервисы могут и по какой цене выкупить на запчасти, если вдруг не сойдемся в цене , а если сойдемся и восстановление неполучится, то хотя бы потраченные деньги вернуть.

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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Elendile » 12 дек 2014, 09:58

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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GOTOXY » 12 дек 2014, 10:06

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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mixser » 12 дек 2014, 11:23

С двигателем тоже беда, масло в щупе на самом конце, когда завелся клацал клапанами и помоему цепочкой.

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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GOTOXY » 12 дек 2014, 11:46

Ну если есть ЖЕЛАНИЕ ВРЕМЯ и ДЕНЬГИ можно восстановить самому. Вы для себя хотите или на продажу?

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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mixser » 12 дек 2014, 11:55

Себе, в наших краях правый руль да еще на батарейках , лучше они ладу калину купят.

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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timgt » 12 дек 2014, 13:03

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Elendile » 12 дек 2014, 14:34

timgt, а по какой причине инвертор может перегреться? Он недавно был заменен.

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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atak » 12 дек 2014, 16:17

Re: Всё по ошибкам Тойоты Эстимы Гибрид первого поколения.

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mixser » 12 дек 2014, 16:31

Ребята , а как себя выдает лягушка?

1. 
   

   TL;DR: I’ve got to the end of my rope on this car and I could really use some insight from those in the community with experience. Currently the Prius in question boots up fine, goes into drive or reverse, and seems to be happy. The issue is that the ICE doesn’t start and the hybrid drive system drains the hybrid battery relatively quickly (~10 minutes). The main code we get is P3000-388, then after a bit we get P3000-389. This is with a known-good battery from another daily-driven Prius.

   Based on the fact that 1) I get no other hybrid control DTCs and 2) the car is trying to start the ICE, I assume this is a good old-fashioned internal combustion engine issue. That I should check for compression, air, spark, and fuel. But the very fact that I’m not getting some feedback is mind boggling. I’m also struggling with how to troubleshoot the ICE as I can’t tell the car when to start it or how much throttle to give it, etc. Without feedback from the computer and direct control I’m not sure how to proceed.

   2005 Prius, ~140k

   This saga started a few months (April) when my friend Chad’s prius (the car in question) had an intermittent CEL. I scanned his car with my dumb generic scanner and got a common set of codes: P0A78 and P0A90. After a quick look online it seemed like we should just replace the inverter coolant pump and call it a day. If the codes didn’t go away afterwards we’d deal with it then. Sure enough, codes did not go away. Decided to take it to a local shop that specializes in Japanese imports and let them take a look. Super nice shop, but I’m not sure they are hybrid savvy. They diagnosed it as either a bad inverter or a bad transaxle. They said they wouldn’t know until they installed the new inverter which one it was. $5k for the inverter, $6k for the transaxle. Woof. We said, «thanks but no thanks», followed the principal of lowest-cost-first, and ordered a used inverter from GreenTec. This is where we take a bit of a detour, but for completeness I need to share our story.

   When the «new» inverter arrived we promptly put it in along with an inverter coolant change and transaxle ATF fluid change. Note: the old ATF was dark and gross. I’m not sure I remember the smell exactly, but I think it smelled burnt. We took our time to do the install, looking over everything carefully. This would be the first of many inverter swaps on this car and we wanted to get it right. With the GreenTec inverter installed we were in high spirits as we started the car. A different code this time kept the car from even going into gear (with the original inverter the car would go into Driver and Reverse but had no power to the ground). The code this time was P0A78, which as best as I could tell implicated the inverter itself. I went back over all the connections, double checked everything, cleared the codes and gave it another try. Same code, no gears. I was baffled.

   It was at this point in the midst of feeling crazy that I realized something: rather than guessing which parts are good I should just do the extra work and swap parts from my 2005 daily-driven Prius (Percy) over onto Chad’s Prius (the car in question). I knew that my inverter was good… why not just try that? Also I decided to stop being lazy and actually get TIS diagnostic software running on my old laptop. I needed those INF detail codes. Let me summarize the conclusion to the inverter detour:
   — I swapped my inverter in and we got the original codes, but now with the INF detail: P0A78-272, P0A90-509
   — I swapped the GreenTec inverter back into the car to get the codes to do a warranty claim with GreenTec: P0A78-266
   — GreenTec was super nice; they delivered a replacement inverter to us. It’s still sitting in my garage.

   Back on track with the codes I got from my known-good inverter, we started researching and troubleshooting. Once again, the principal of lowest-cost-first told us that a transaxle was probably the issue. MG1/MG2 seem like they might have been cooked between the inverter coolant pump failure and the burnt ATF. We secured a transaxle out of a 2005 prius with ~68k miles on it and promptly started tearing down the car. Thanks to wonderful writeup by Lam (DIY: How to remove GenII Transmission | PriusChat) it was a relatively straight forward process. We did another ATF and inverter coolant change as well as rear main seal and axel seals (transaxle output shaft). We opted to put the original inverter back in the car as we had no concrete indication that it was bad (and it appeared to be in better shape then the replacement inverter from GreenTec). Once again, we took our time with the job as it was a first for both of us. We put the car on the ground and gave her a start… no triangle of death! We were pretty excited. But as soon as we tried to move the car out of the garage we noticed that the ICE didn’t start. Then we got the check engine light and a code we hadn’t seen before: P3000-388.

   At this point the car had been sitting in driveway for nearly 3 months as the process of diagnosing the inverter and getting a transaxle had taken quite a bit of time as both Chad and I have full time jobs. (The first transaxle they had sent had gotten lost in transit… how do you lose a 350lb hunk of metal on a pallet? Haha.) The hybrid battery hadn’t given us problems before, but it was pretty low (1 bar) as we were constantly turning the car on/off while trying to troubleshoot the inverter. So maybe the battery was the problem?

   Starting in on diagnosing P3000-388, the FSM (TIS 48 hour subscription) tells me to check that the the crank rotates in park (car off), it rotates freely. Next it says to charge the battery (with some propriatorey toyota tool my local dealer doesn’t even know they have) and try to start it again. Because I have no way to charge the current battery (~1 year old remanufactured Green Bean product) I tried to think of a way to to start the engine if the battery had not enough power. I’m embarrassed to say that I put a drill on the crankshaft output (where the drive pulley is) and tried to «help» turn the engine over when the car attempted to start it. No luck. All our diagnostics and research seemed to point to the battery as being the issue, so Chad was ready to pull the trigger on a «new» hybrid battery and get it over with. It just didn’t add up to me. I knew that the hybrid system is capable of starting the ICE with 1% battery… this just didn’t make sense. I convinced Chad to let us verify the battery first by swapping the battery over from my Prius (Percy). Took us an hour to do the swap, cleared the codes and gave it a try. Same exact issues: ICE won’t start, battery depletes quickly, P3000-388, then after several tries P3000-389. No other engine-related codes. I pulled off the top of the airbox, sprayed some starter fluid in, but no avail. The ICE doesn’t fire or chug or anything. And the computer doesn’t complain.

   When I run into new issues after installing parts I always consider how the changes I’ve made caused the problems I’m seeing. I feel like a new issue like this should be explained by the used (hopefully good) transaxle, or a bad connection from all the things I plugged/unplugged. But my brain hasn’t come up with a theory that fits. The transaxle is the obvious culprit, but its mechanically sound (verified by rotating the crank) and seems to be electrically sound from the facts that 1) forward and reverse work fine 2) we are getting no DTCs implicating the hybrid drive system. Is it possible for all those things to work AND that the starting functionality is broken? I’ve visually inspected all the plugs; I don’t see any obvious connection problems. And no DTCs indicating any electrical issues.

   I’m out of town for the next two weeks and away from the car, but when I get home I’m hoping to dive back in. Thanks for reading my story and thanks in advance for any suggestions, thoughts, or ideas.

2. 
   

   The engine (ICE) isn’t being turned over by the HV battery at all?

   Have you had a chance to inspect the HV battery sense wires or HV battery ECU cable/pins for corrosion?

   What is the measured voltage at the HV battery?

3. 
   

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   Chad was ready to pull the trigger on a «new» hybrid battery and get it over with. It just didn’t add up to me. I knew that the hybrid system is capable of starting the ICE with 1% battery…

   The above is false.

   You’re aware the 388 subcode can be thrown if the car is out of fuel? The 389 subcode is thrown when the HV battery has depleted itself to the point it’s too weak to do anything?

   Have you tried adding 5 gallons of fuel, using a fully charged HV battery.

4. 
   

   SFO and TMR-JWAP, thanks for your prompt responses. Apologies for the late reply, I was away from my computer for a few days camping.This is a great question, I am 90% positive that the ICE is being turned over by the HV battery. When we put the known-good battery from Percy in the car and drove up and down the alley the ICE sounded like it was running but wouldn’t idle when I stopped the car. Also I verified (with the car off the ground and the passenger side wheel off) that the HV battery was turning the crank shaft in a way that looked like starting.

   I have not inspected the HV battery sense wires or the HV battery ECU cable/pins for corrosion, thats a good idea. I’d think that might be ruled out by swapping in the known-good battery, though? I pulled the known-good battery out of a running Prius.

   I have not measured the voltage at the HV battery. Is there any write up on doing that? In general I’m leery of DC power sources with large voltage values. It makes sense that checking the battery voltage would be a good diagnostic step.

   I’ve read the FSM definitions for the subcodes and I do recall that 388 could be related to fuel. To be honest, I hadn’t thought about 388 and 389 in such summarized terms. I appreciate the practical view.

   The short answer is «yes» and «no». After the initial 388 and 389 subcodes we installed the known-good battery (~75% charged) and gave it a go. Drove up and down the alley, battery charge visibly dropped. I didn’t want to deplete the battery before we tried something else, so I stopped the car and shut it off with ~2 bars left and went to get fuel. I put 5 gallons of 93 octane and a bottle of sea-foam in the tank, then popped the air cover and gave a nice little spray starter fluid. No noticeable difference, no backfires or bangs or anything indicating fuel.

5. 
   

   Thinking about all of this it seems like the culprit is likely 1) fuel or 2) spark to the ICE. I’m ruling out air as nothing has changed and the air filter looks fine. I’m ruling out compression as there hasn’t been any changes to the engine since the last time it ran. And when I turn the engine over by hand it has the typical feel of compression.

   TMR-JWAP’s comments made me think «what about the fuel pump?». I suppose there is a chance that starter fluid would be ineffective. If the fuel pump wasn’t working correctly then the 5 gallons of new gas in the tank wouldn’t be helpful. But I’d expect to get a code indicating the fuel pump… or something.

   Spark is the one input to the ICE I haven’t tried to verify yet. Its not a single plug or coil, it’d be the whole system that would be failing. So maybe the supply for the ignition coils failed? Or I missed a ground somewhere when putting everything back together? Its been a while, but I recall the engine throwing DTC’s related to the the ICE not starting when the car expects it to start. I’m not getting anything like that, which I would expect if there was no spark.

   Its almost like some part of the system is deciding to not start the engine (probably due to my mistake), maybe as a safety, and that message is not getting propagated back to me.

6. 
   

   If the HV battery is drained and money is tight, you may need a used the EC-570 «Electrophoresis Power Supply» for top end balancing/charging, you can find one for under $100. There could be an even less expensive HV power supply option if you spent time reviewing the various specs of the used electrophoresis power supplies that are currently available, as some sell for half that price.

   If you do find a less expensive option, please share the make, model, and specs here as well.

7. 
   

   strawbrad
   http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

   Joined:

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   Before you do anything else to this poor Prius clean the MAF sensor. Use only MAF cleaner to do so. The sensor has to be removed to be cleaned properly. Be sure to check the two wires buried deep inside it. It’s not just the bulb that is clearly visible. I have seen dozens of Prius disabled from a spec of dirt falling on the MAF sensor.But you do and you call him Percy. Use your good running car to do a «forced charge» on both batteries (one at a time). Then you will have two fully charged batteries to play with. Your lifetime warranty from Green Bean is now invalid because the car has sat unused for too long.

   When you try to start the car is the ready light coming on? Have Chad watch the engine when you try to start it. Is the serpentine belt spinning? If so does the exhaust feel hot?

   Try this.
   Force charge both batteries with Percy
   Clean the MAF sensor
   Clear all codes
   Use some starting fluid and try to start
   Look for spinning engine and hot exhaust

8. 
   

   Thanks for this, SFO. I was not aware there were tools for maintaining/charging the hybrid battery. I’ll definitely take a look.I appreciate the insights, strawbrad. I just got home from my trip last night and I’m going to try what you suggested here. I have not cleaned the MAF on this car before. I’m pretty sure that the crank pulley is spinning, but I’ll verify that the serpentine belt spins and that exhaust gets hot.

   Does it make sense to try to put the car into another mode (ie maintenance mode) so it’ll try to run the ICE? I’m thinking with a charged battery I might not actually get the ICE to try to start predictably.

9. 
   

   Was able to get out to the car last night and tried the things that @strawbrad suggested above.
   
   Force charged both batteries with Percy: I was surprised how well this worked. I only did the Green Bean battery last night as we were short on time. Popped it in, hooked everything up, and turned the car on. Percy idled for a bit automatically (probably because the battery was so low), then we force charged by holding the brake and pressing the accelerator to the floor while he was in drive. Got the battery up to green then swapped it into Chad’s car (prius in question).

   Clean the MAF sensor: We removed the airbox, pulled the MAF, then used CRC Mass Air Flow Sensor Cleaner to spray it down several times. Got both the «bulb» and down inside to the hot wires. Spent quite a few minutes on this.

   Clear all the codes: This was easy as there were no codes to clear.

   Use some starting fluid and try to start: Sprayed a bit of starting fluid in the airbox (not directly on the MAF), had Chad start the car while I observed under the hood.

   Look for spinning engine and hot exhaust: Well, this was disappointing. I used a white marker to put a mark on the serpentine belt so I could see how far it moved. We verified that when Chad turned the car on that the «READY» was illuminated. Then Chad attempted to force charge the battery by putting his foot on the brake and holding while he shifted into drive and held the accelerator. The ICE «kicked», but the mark on the belt only moved a few inches. It definitely didn’t «spin» the ICE, which was what I was expecting. We tried this a couple times (putting it back in park, attempting to force charge) but no difference. ICE «kicks» and rotates the serpentine belt a few inches. To me it looked like it was binding or something as when Chad would put it in park the ICE would rotates forward slightly (as if it were under tension). And of course I forgot to check for hot exhaust!

   With light failing, we decided to call it a night.

10. 
    

    I’ve been thinking back/forth and I can’t come up with a hypothesis that explains all the effects that I’m seeing with this car. What I realized yesterday is that I need to bisect this issue to see if I can narrow down the problem. Up until the other night where I tried what strawbrad suggested I had assumed that the issue was with the ICE as 1) I get no hybrid control DTCs 2) functionally testing the transaxle seemed to clear it of any faults. However, I don’t think that the small distance the transaxle is turning the ICE over is nearly enough to achieve combustion. Therefore, I’m going to try to observe what a no-start attempt looks like in Percy (unhook fuel / coil packs) to see how much the transaxle spins the ICE to start it.

    After watching Weber State University’s video «Prius (2nd Gen) P112 Hybrid Transaxle (eCVT) Operation» I learned that functionally the Prius can drive up and down my alley (in forward and reverse) without using MG1 at all as it relies solely on MG2. So there is a chance that MG1, responsible for starting and charging, is the issue here. If that is the case, I’d expect DTC’s related to MG1’s condition, … <shrug>.

11. 
    

    No sure on the exact duration, but the transaxle should be turning the engine for around 5 seconds.

12. 
    

    Thanks SFO, I’ll verify that. I also realized that I was wrong above; based on the Weber State University video MG1 is also responsible for reverse. So, if I can drive the car in reverse just fine then MG1 should also be capable of starting the ICE. Not necessarily that it will, but that it can.

13. 
    

    With the car all powered down and the plastic liner dropped behind the right front wheel so you can see the engine crank pulley, are you able to crank it through a few full turns by hand, or with a wrench on the pulley bolt?

    It’s a small engine and not hard to crank by hand with the spark plugs out so you’re not fighting compression. With the plugs in, it’s easier using a wrench. It shouldn’t feel very different from turning the handwheel on a sort of oversized sewing machine (sewing through several layers….).

14. 
    

    strawbrad
    http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    +1 to what Chap just said.

    For safety pull the orange plug and disconnect the 12 volt battery. Then put a wrench on the pulley bolt and try to turn the engine over.

15. 
    

    There is only fixed gearing (ok, and ‘chaining’) between MG2 and the drive wheels, so MG2 by itself is sufficient to move the car forward or backward. Do you remember which spot in which Weber video made it seem like MG1 was needed for that?Ok, I guess I didn’t see where that was checked in post #1:This is getting kind of weird. Um, let a buddy push you slowly back and forth in the driveway in N while you let Techstream log the MG1 and MG2 rpm readings?

16. 
    

    Thanks for reading my post, ChapmanF.Right! I did try that (as you realized). No issues spinning the crank what so ever. I opted for a wrench and not taking out the spark plugs when I did it.I was also thinking that MG2 did all the traction, so I was surprised at the end of the video when the presenter explains how reverse is obtained. It makes sense as it would be easier to energize and spin MG1 than to reverse MG2 (or add a gear). Direct link to the relevant section here:

    Interesting! I haven’t used Techstream to log MG1 and MG2 rpm readings before. Can you point me in the right direction? Also, what would be the purpose of getting the RPM readings?

    Chad is out and apparently took his key, but the next thing I want to try is actually driving in reverse, presumably with only the assistance of MG1. I spent some time this afternoon messing with Percy (the working Prius) and starting the ICE without fuel or spark. Its pretty interesting as I almost can’t tell a difference between the engine running under its own combustion power and it being run by MG1. @SFO: I didn’t get my timer out, but it seemed like the starter ran for about 5 seconds.

17. 
    

    There should be an award for finding a mistake in one of his videos. There aren’t many there to find.

    You’re too late for the award for that one, because if you look in the youtube comments below the video, you’ll see Cl3gster caught it 7 years ago, and Prof. Kelly acknowledged it.

    There isn’t any difficulty in making MG2 run backward: a three-phase motor will turn in either direction, just depending on the relative timing of the U, V, and W waveforms you feed it. When you reflect that the Prius transaxle does everything it does through precise timing of the U, V, W waveforms to MG1 and MG2 (controlling not just which way each one spins but whether each one is motoring or generating), that shouldn’t even be seen as a trick, it’s just the whole show.

    Well, the Active Data List is where you would see the MG1 and MG2 rpms, along with oodles of other parameters. If you play with the UI a little, I think you can pick one or two different parameters to plot on a graph over time, and maybe also log to a file.

    The graphs can come out a little funky, because Techstream doesn’t really have continuous readings of anything, just packets that arrive every so often. But they can give a rough idea.

    Well, um, one of the early questions in my mind would be, do you get them? And do they make sense, plotted on the nomogram for the Prius transaxle, along with the engine rpm (zero, apparently) and the road speed (how fast can Chad push?).

    Because all of the transaxle magic is in the waveform timing, the electronics need precise position and direction data for both MG rotors, which come from a little instrument called a ‘resolver’ on each one, which reports each rotor position to a 4,096th of a revolution, or better than a tenth of a degree. Those are also where the MG rpm readings come from.

    If the electronics don’t know where the rotor is (or think they know, but wrong), they can’t generate properly timed waveforms to move it, or move it in the intended direction.

    Since it seems as if your start attempts barely move the engine crankshaft much, and you’ve ruled out the engine being seized, the question shifts along to ok, why else ain’t it moving?

    Along the same lines … have you ever gone back and double-checked your power connections between the inverter and MG1, making sure U goes to U, V goes to V, W goes to W?

    A fun thing about three-phase motors is you reverse one any time you swap any pair of its inputs. (Then if you swap another pair, it’s forward again, any odd number of swaps, reversed, and so on.)

    I am almost remembering another thread on here from ancient days, where somebody did get a pair swapped to one of the MGs. So the ECU says «ok, you MG, spin this way» and instantly the resolver reports it’s begun to spin the other way, and the ECU goes «ok, I don’t know what just happened.»

    I might even be vaguely remembering that there wasn’t a DTC for that, as if maybe the firmware team didn’t think of that ever happening.

18. 
    

    Looks like my rule of «never read the youtube comments» bit me this time. Thanks so much for the correction. Also, great overview of how the three-phase system operates. I learned something new but I’m definitely out of my depth here.
    Alright, this is getting interesting in my brain: we swapped the lead for MG1 that goes to the inverter with the one from the old transaxle. The replacement trans looked like it had been rolled around the yard a bit and the the connector for MG1 was a bit abused. Figured since we had it out we might as well pop the cover and replace the line. This makes me wonder if we accidentally swapped the one of the wires (U, V, W). I remember we were paying close attention, but humans are prone to ordering mistakes. I suppose logging the MG1 rpm might tell us what the computer sees.

19. 
    

    That was my thinking. If rolling the car around and watching those rpms shows that both MGs are turning (as they should), and in the right directions at the right speeds, that is, sane information is arriving from both resolvers, I would then be almost ready to bet on some shuffling of the power cables.

    Alternatively, if the roll-the-car-around experiment shows missing or weird data from one or both resolvers, then I would next recheck those low-voltage connections instead.

    The coin-lands-on-edge possibility might be that you roll the car around in N, see an rpm for MG2, a zero for MG1, and that the engine is in fact being turned (your mark on the accessory belt moved). That would suggest MG1 is physically seized. That shouldn’t be the case though, if you were able to hand-crank the engine while the wheels were on the ground.

20. 
    

    Update: I drove the car up and down the alley last night and was able to verify that the RPMs for both MG1 and MG2 were sane. Namely, I wanted to be sure that when MG2 showed 510 rpms that MG1 showed -510 rpms. As best I could tell, the resolver is reading the position correctly of MG1. I didn’t think about it till afterward, but I should have logged it.

    I’m heading out in a few minutes to inspect the wiring block for MG1 on the transaxle. My assumption (and my hope) is that we swapped two of the three three-phase power leads when we were installing it.

    Does anyone know how to identify which blocks are which? I can’t seem to find a diagram in my manual that explains which wires go to which blocks.

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